A lower efficient compression rate leads to a higher fuel consumption rate by your engine to produce higher power. That notion is completely false. - Sheryl Crow. that is why people running 112 or 114 lobe centres retard the cam ,that way the exhaust event is back were it was before .this helps in exhaust valve tempatures--anyway today i talked too barry who is the owner of shadbolt cams and we talked about cam lobe centres -he considers 108 centre quite narrow and for a very narrow power band operation ,with a 112 he figures with the carbs with straight & even runs at the valves there should be no noticable loss of low end power, a 112 lobe would be a great choice for a great street strip motor -better lower torque followed with a flatter rising torque curve as well as rpm range extended 500-700 rpm -. Read More Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About ThemContinue, What causes a car to bog down when accelerating? If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. TH400 Vs Powerglide: Which One is Ideal for You? Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post or just enough to keep the neighbors pissed? Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. Test 1 was easy. A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! I don't know about 13 to one but I have seen 12 to one on a 350 chev in hot rod article, BUT the guy soft petals around on the street with no full throttle use and puts racing gas in at the track. Camshaft Kits - 108 Lobe Separation (degrees) - Summit Racing Contributions la connaissance de la flore du Maroc et de l'Afrique du I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. Chuck Lawrence of Jon Kaase Racing Engines was asked to give a 520ci BBF a Pro Stock sound, so he went with a 108 LSA in place of a more conventional 112 LSA. Usually, this separation angle ranges from 95-degree to 120-degree. Now lets move to the exhaust. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post 08 Additional components used to build the stroker included a set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, ARP head studs, and a new oil pump. LSA is a result of valve timing events. LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 Richard Holdener 239K subscribers 168K views 2 years ago WESTECH PERFORMANCE GROUP FULL RESULTS-CHANGE ONLY LSA-LS CAM TEST. Do you know what the best lobe separation angle for your car engine is? You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. The balance of midrange torque and top-end horsepower lends this LSA range to the majority of street/strip engines. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. If that accessory still does not assist the cam in producing enough vacuum, then as a last resort you can use a vacuum pump. What happens when you change ONLY. This overlapping has a direct influence on the oil consumption rate of the engine. Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. Hopefully It will do fine in my 2276 mostly drag bug. The tighter the lobe separation angle, the peakier the power curve will be, confirms Bolander. . How to Choose a Camshaft for Street Vehicles - OnAllCylinders The graph above compares intake valve closing points of the three cams used in the test. I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. 114 lsa cam sound clips | LS1LT1 Forum Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. i think a little more torque will be good for my car.With the XE274 it was a little slugish until around 3000 rpms. In this segment, I am going to compare those two lobe separation angles based on a couple of mechanical factors. 106 LSA: As you know, the intake and exhaust lobes centerline distance is known as lobe separation angle. A cam in the 110112 LSA range provides the necessary idle lobe to appease gearhead ears with acceptable manifold vacuum to run vacuum-operated accessories. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Disclaimer: Remember to always consult with an expert first before trying anything at home. On the cranking. Coupled that with the low first gear of the five speed, it ought to create some real traction problems. Bad idea in my view. indeed, expect low vacuum with anything lower than 110-ish. As you can see in the graph, the 101 LSA cam actually had the highest cranking compression of the batch: 185 psi. by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post And better gas mileage. I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? by Mr. P. Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:36 pm, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. The 114o lobe will add a lot more vacuum at idle. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. Tuning this cam would be slightly more difficult due to the reduced idle vacuum, but it is hard to argue with all the extra power. thanks. 112-110 Deg. It will have slightly higher vacuum at idle, feel smoother through the power curve but have a bit less midrange. . The lower the lobe seperation,, ie. This wave tuning is what helps performance engines achieve volumetric efficiencies of more than 100 percent. Methods: We evaluated 30 individuals with PD (62.47.2 years) and 22 age-matched healthy controls (61.06.4 years). That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. Some prefer a narrow powerband, and some prefer the broader one. On engines equipped with independent intake and exhaust cams, the LSA is adjustable. The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Cylinder-head flow and LSA are directly related: as a rule of thumb, the better the head flows, the wider the LSA can be. I am pretty sure, right now, you find yourself in the middle of the rising debate of 106 vs 110 lobe separation angle. "Ninety-nine percent of cranking compression is dictated by static compression ratio and intake-valve closing point," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. Despite no changes in lift or duration, this cam sounded much more aggressive than the other two with wider LSAs. Mike Magda is a veteran automotive writer with credits in publications such as Racecar Engineering, Hot Rod, Engine Technology International, Motor Trend, Automobile, Automotive Testing Technology and Professional Motorsport World. This table will create a map in your head, and I bet it will make your understanding crystal clear. The right camshaft choice | Hemmings Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? It may not display this or other websites correctly. Increasing the EGR effect has a good side in that it reduces the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. by 3V Performance Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:38 pm, Post We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. 110 will be a bit punchier in the midrange and probalby make a little more peak horsepower as long as a good exhaust is used. A 232 deg duration cam with a 108 deg LCA will have the same valve overlap as a 236 deg cam with a 110 deg LCA and idle will probably be very similar. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. I've heard similar cams (only about 5*'s off) and they have a nice rumble to them. by ANT Mon May 12, 2003 1:47 pm, Post On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. Lobe Separation Angle Explained and How it Affects Horsepower - MotorTrend The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. Camshaft lobe separation angle: what does it mean? | Moore Good Ink FWIW. 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . How To Properly Replace Ignition Coils, Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About Them, Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When Accelerating. The intake air control valve (IAC), which regulates idle speed, also has to work overtime and often attempts to "catch" the idle, but usually shoots high or low. 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? - Vintage Mustang Forums ~These are just some of the drawbacks weas guys who like to go mach 10 with our hair on fire and these little motors screaming at rpms that make other guys cryhave to deal with.~. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. If you shift at 7500-7800 add 4-6 degrees to both intake and exhaust and spread the lobe separation to 108-110. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. Lobe Separation or Lobe Centers is another way of expressing the Valve Overlap, which was the term formerly used by cam manufacturers before industry standard verbiage changed. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. The lobe separation angle is a comprise of what the engine needs depending on the compression, combustion chamber, rpm, engine size, head volume, and many, many other variables. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. Pinning the tail on the perfect cam can certainly be a difficult task. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. by SStrokerAce Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:22 am, Post I think you are asking a lot of a cam . I know a little about cams. However, these rules are not absolute. If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. by mrsmythe Wed May 14, 2003 2:26 am, Post The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. This form of short-term memory is supported by the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and is believed to rely on the ability of selectively tuned pyramidal neuron networks to persist in firing even after a to-be-remembered stimulus is removed from the environment. by flat4racer17 Tue May 13, 2003 9:12 pm, Post What brand and what are the specs on your cam, 4-linked72? If you take any of the . I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. to use this representational knowledge to guide current and future action. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. 554"/577" lift. Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main Culprit, Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything], Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? 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Disorganization of language and working memory systems in frontal I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. Thanks for the replies so far. Equipped with the 120-degree (LSA) cam, the hybrid stroker produced 570 hp at 6,200 rpm and 535 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm. Another important measurement was the torque production at 4,000 rpm and this cam checked in with 484 lb-ft of torque. Now its not shifting into 3rd and you are here. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. ALL bolts are ARP. Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. Making this the biggest obstacle to overcome when selecting a cam profile with one of our tech advisors, explaining the definition and importance of the Lobe Center. by MELWAY Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:18 pm, Post While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. JavaScript is disabled. See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). Next up was the 112-degree cam, which actually lost out in peak power slightly to the 120-degree cam, but offered considerably more torque. I wouldn't assume 4 links fuel requirements will mirror yours at all. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. It a 355. thanks in advance. Lobe Separation Angle "LSA " | Yellow Bullet Forums The 108 LSA offered the lowest idle vacuum of the three (down 4 inches). So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. One segment that truly benefits from a wider LSA is the marine marine market. Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. The takeaway is simple on the surface: A tighter LSA makes more low-end and peak torque at the expense of just a few top-end ponies. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Call for details with your specific combination. This recommendation is only if you shift at no more than 7000. Aug 20, 2006. As lobe seperation spreads does the powerband. 110 vs. 112 lobe seperarion on a cam - Chevy Message Forum I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. JavaScript is disabled. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. The tighter the lobe center, the lower the RPM range; the wider the lobe center, the higher the RPM range. 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. Lobe Separation Angle 110 Vs 112 - Truck Guider Alternatively, if you are running a bigger camshaft to gain maximum top-end power, cam makers often suggest reducing the lobe separation angle to recover power lost in the lower rev range.. ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? = Moderate 108-106 Deg. 108 vs 112 LSA | Team Camaro Tech Do you like to go fast? If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? While most of our customers know what lift and duration are, most are unfamiliar with the term Lobe Center and how it affects the engines performance. The only reason I . Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. Idle quality was rough and the vacuum gauge showed only 9.8 in-Hg (inches of mercury). [img]http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h291/downsideup09/DSCF2616-1.jpg[/img], [img]http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs139.snc1/5928_111214857139_110806152139_2127222_6826389_n.jpg[/img]. 68 Mustang, 306, AFR 185\'s, CI cam, FPA\'s, Bigs 650 DP, T5Z, 9" w/4.33's. Introduction. http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en6em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html. Changing lobe seperation from 110 to 112-14? | For B Bodies Only So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. All three terms are similar, as they all relate to the relationship between the centerline of the Intake lobe and the centerline of the Exhaust lobe. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle: Real Impacts You Must Learn In reality, a cam with 220 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 112 will have the exact same mechanical overlap as a cam with 217 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 109. Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. in some cases,, the average torque can equal out. For large port heads like the CNC 044's which can use the extra lift 1.4's make a noticable difference. Whatever you do, stay under 270 advertised duration and shoot for a 110 lobe separation. 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? | Vintage Mustang Forums Another difference between the two involves the power curve. 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two . Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. But you always have a cam card with the engine. Lobe separation angle does. Brul slid the 113-LSA cam, the widest of the test, into the engine's heart and set about putting all the pieces back in place. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. by bug1914 Tue May 13, 2003 2:56 am, Post Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. Many later model engines use wide lobe separation angles to reduce overlap for idle quality and fuel economy. But it is a piece of good news for your engine. I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. But it also has a lot of lobe separation. dont sound like a verry street friendly motor butany thoughts? Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 282/288, Lift .589/.600, Chevy, Big Block, Kit. It also depends on displacement, some guys will run a bigger cam and widen the LCA to give a better idle but in my opinion it kills power. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. 15,215. ohio. Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"?
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